Cate Stillman did what many entrepreneurs dream of: starting and growing a business within her passion. Her background in international environmental politics and policy brought her to the teachings of Ayurveda, a system of natural healing and medicine that originated in India thousands of years ago. While learning both yoga and Ayurveda, she realized that those two communities, which are traditionally inseparable in India, were completely separate in the United States. So in 2001 she started YogaHealer.com and built a community of teachers and students. She chats with Clate and Infusionsoft director of content Carey Ballard about building that tribe and speaking to them; marrying desire with action in both life and business; and grappling with the realities of content marketing.
Mentioned in this episode:
“Tribes” by Seth Godin
“Primal Branding” by Patrick Hanlon
Cate Stillman: I was willing to innovate, and in that I willing in many ways to say – I caught a lot of flak along the way. Every time I do something a little different, now I just expect it.
Clate Mask: As an innovator you caught flack. I don't know what that's like. That's Cate Stillman talking about the flak and the naysayers drive her to innovate. To hear more of Cate's story keep listening to this addition of the Small Business Success Podcast.
Carie Ballard: Welcome to the Small Business Success Podcast. I'm Carey Ballard, Director of Content at Infusionsoft.
Clate Mask: I'm Clate Mask, Co-Founder of Infusion. Carey is standing in for Scott who is having fun on vacation right now.
Carey Ballard: We're here today talking to Cate Stillman from Yoga Healer. Welcome Cate.
Cate Stillman: Thanks for inviting me.
Clate Mask: You bet, it's great to have you with us. So, Yoga Healer, I'm sure our listeners would love to hear a little bit about that. So tell us
how long you've been in business, what you do, and how many employees you have.
Cate Stillman: So I started YogaHealer.com in 2001. I was fortunate to be learning Ayurvedic medicine and Yoga teacher training in the Bay area. So there was just a flood on the market of web designers. So I instantly had a website, and Constant Contact -- remember them, account, and started email list building from the beginning. I have grown Yoga Healer with – basically with an offshore contractor so I don't have any employees, and I – but now we're creating a team out of those contractors as we go forward.
Carey Ballard: Very cool. So tell me what was your inspiration, because I think there's probably a great story there.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. Back in the day in 2001 Ayurvedic medicine, and it's still a very unknown, but it was even more unknown then. But Yoga was going through a boom, and because I had a foot in both communities – let me back up too by saying Ayurveda is the healing science behind Yoga, and then Yoga is the path of enlightenment.
So we consider Yoga a physical exercise routine now, but it's not historically. It's a path of enlightenment, and the body movements are really just a part of that. So I was bouncing back and forth between Yoga, schools and Yoga teacher training courses, and teaching Yoga classes in San Francisco, and going back to my really small Ayurvedic training center, and realizing that these two communities, which were never separate in India were totally separate in the U.S., and that there was a massive market opportunity. But also just great educational opportunity to cross pollinate these two groups of people.
Clate Mask: Cool.
Carey Ballard: Very interesting. Yeah, and you're obviously pretty committed to the cause right? This is something you're pretty passionate about.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. I went into Yoga from a background in international environmental politics and policy. I was obsessed from teenagers with global warming, and so I went into what are considered brown issues or pollution issues in high school, and college. After college I was working for the International Institute of Energy
Conservation, and I got to a point where I realized that I wanted to work on the human consciousness I'd owned, and help humans become more conscious and therefore make smarter decisions. Like live green naturally just from their raised lever of consciousness, then work on the policy side. Trying to change how the human – they both worked, but I just naturally became interested in the human consciousness side, which brought me into Ayurveda. Because Ayurveda is a healing system that intrinsically raises people's consciousness both personally and then also collectively. It's Earth based, it's based on rhythms of nature.
Clate Mask: Got it; so you took your interest that you had, and then you end up finding a path to a business that fed your desire and your interest. But you created a business that was actually out of two different disciplines that were attractive to you – you cared about, and
brought them together to actually drive the – to further the thinking and the consciousness that really is what you were so concerned about when you were younger that even got you to this place from the beginning.
So that's a pretty – it's a pretty cool way of taking your interest, marrying it with a couple of disciplines out there, and actually recognizing there was an opportunity and a market that then you began to drive through your – through email marketing and through your website. So that's a lot of good entrepreneurship going on there. Well done Cate.
Cate Stillman: [laughter] Thank you. It's been great with Elite Form through Infustionsoft learning to articulate the values. Because one of our values is that we connect the personal with the planetary, and in others that we orient towards thrive. So when you combine those two it helps actually everyone in our community start to articulate this connection between personal self-care and planetary care.
Carey Ballard: You've got a really big burden when it comes to messaging from that perspective because you've got a lot –
as I understand your business model, you've got a lot of people responsible for carrying that message farther into the community. So can you talk a little bit about how do you mange that? That's a really big challenge for businesses.
Cate Stillman: So if I understand the question it's how do everyone that's communicating all the yoga health coaches, and then all of the different coaches in the program, even the students in the program live and post – on social media, recording them to…
Carey Ballard: Absolutely.
Cate Stillman: So this has really been fascinating. Seth Golden's book Tribe, I've naturally build a tribe. I intrinsically did it just from – I think what helped was the environmental perspective from the beginning. I never wanted to print something that didn't have content. So I never wanted to print a brochure or a travel schedule here's where I'm going to appear all over the country and teach this stuff. It just felt so scummy.
So I started print content marketing just intrinsically. If I'm going to print my schedule it better have tips on it for how you can set up a better morning routine or those really – here's a recipe with it that's going to help you…
Carey Ballard: Recipes always win.
Cate Stillman: Exactly. So in the recipes of course then can be connected to the planetary having them picking the weeds in their yard, and blending those up, and starting to stop dumping pesticides in your yard. So I think because of that I've naturally attracted people who were a little out of the box like me, who are thinking about social issues and the bigger perspective who had a lot of concerns, who wanted to live green, and eat green not just for narcissistic health based reasons, which is big in the Yoga world, unfortunately. But really for greater – we're actually taking small actions that demonstrated social awareness.
Clate Mask: Yeah. So let's pause on something that you're saying here. Because whatever – for our listeners whatever they're interest, this is why I
went back to your interest right at the very beginning. But when – a lot of times entrepreneurs they're really just – they're connecting their interest with a problem or a gap that exist in the market, and they're filling that gap by bringing a solution to the market that wasn't there before. Yet, I think a lot of times what gets lost on people in that process is that it's you talking about your interest, it's you sharing that interest – getting that educational information out there, and then having people become attracted to that.
Then you can build a tribe around that interest. So whatever – for our listeners, whatever your interest is, whatever your – whatever you've done to take that interest and turn it into a business I think the thing that we don’t – that you'll find from successful entrepreneurs that you don't want to lose here that Cate's talking about is getting really passionate and communicative about that interest. There's a whole work of "content marketing" that comes out of that.
But if you really distill it beyond – it's really just passionate people talking about the things and sharing the things that they care about, and it turns out that's really good marketing. So I think you've done that and you've built a big list, and you built a tribe as Seth Golden talks about. But I think a lot of times entrepreneurs – many of our listeners I'm sure, maybe don't realize that it's actually talking about that passion, writing about that passion, blogging about that passion, for us podcasting about our passion of small success it's actually getting that passion out that attracts the like-minded individuals for you to build a tribe, and you've done a great job of that in the areas that interest you in living green naturally and consciously. But for whatever our listener's passion and interest is don't miss this point, because you can create a – it's actually good marketing. I would encourage you to not do it just because it's good marketing, just be you and get it out there, and you'll be surprised at the way people will flock to you and the tribe that you can build.
Carey Ballard: Absolutely. I think, Cate, you've probably been a little bit more systematic about it than I think you maybe even realize.
There's a really great book to check out for listeners out there called Primal Branding, and it's about how to talk consistently, how to use the similar language, use similar creation stories, codes and references that help people understand when they're in the tribe so that they can feel comfortable, and then share that forward, which I actually believe talking to you in the past, which we've done, you do very natively. But I think for those trying to recreate that that's a really great guidebook for that activity.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. Just to follow that up it's – we naturally do that when we're in groups. It's like every family has their own inside jokes.
Carey Ballard: Exactly.
Cate Stillman: So, it's the same thing, and not to be afraid of that or not to be afraid of coming up with terminology, it spontaneously arises, and then reinforcing that through using it. It does, and it really separates the people who are in the know with that language from those who are just actually trying to figure out what it means, and that's okay.
Then what I wanted to add too, what you said, Clate is that to me it's always been a conversation. I think when I started to learn more that it should be a conversation then it seemed like now we can strategically create better conversations. I think that helps for – especially for people who are newer and trying to create – trying to articulate their interest, to think of it is like is anyone else here interested in this, and then actually receiving what comes back. Then putting forward the next piece, and then that way it's much more natural.
Clate Mask: Yeah, totally. I wish our listeners could see your body language as we're talking with you right now. Because that's exactly what it is, it's just – when I said just start talking, you're having a conversation. You're attracting the people that are of – have like interests. Then that creates – like you said it creates a community, it creates a tribe as Seth talks about. You begin to have, as you said, your own inside jokes, your own conversation. But it's really – it really is something that happens naturally for many people, and you've done a great job of that for people that are trying to find their voice in that it can be a little tricky.
So what – I want to get to some of the things that you do in terms of designing a successful life and a successful business, because I think you're great at that, and I think our listeners will really like to hear that. But I – but before we get to that, do you have any tips or suggestions for people? How do they begin to really get that conversation out there? Are there people that have these other thoughts? How do they get clear on that in their own mind so that they can begin having that conversation, and build their tribe?
Cate Stillman: The way that I did it I feel like it's not – I try everything that I – that's interesting to me. There's a – the kind of Yoga that I study is post-classical; so it's more Tantra, and in Tantra you follow your desire. You actually look for your higher desire, not your lower desire; so there really – the deeper down become Dharma desires, where you feel really on purpose. So I really try to pay attention – that looks good, that looks like something I'm jiving with. I'm going to try it,
and starting to identify what – because there's so many choices right now. There's 50 social media platforms that you could try it, there's all the different technologies, there's blogging, there's podcasting, there's Facebook, live streaming, there's Periscoping. There's just so many options; so to some degree to find if I had to limit my desire where's the desire the strongest, and to trust that. Start to trust what channels you're drawn to, trust what Facebook you like or maybe you hate Facebook and you like Instagram or maybe you hate all things visual and you're happier on Twitter.
Although, now Twitter's doing streaming and images too, but maybe you're a Pinterest junkie. So go with your desire, don't go against your desire. Naturally, you'll find people that have the same ways of wanting to connect, and then from there too just what would you naturally post. It's interesting, I think with Facebook posting or whatever kind of social media post we're doing there's a learning curve, and just to accept that there's going to be a learning curve.
But then eventually if you stick with it you'll naturally do this – you'll just do it naturally, and you want to think about it, and you'll end up of course this is going to get a ton of likes, blah, blah, blah. I think the other thing to bring here I'm a personality brand, I'm starting to try to branch out from that. But to decide how personal you want to get; my husband doesn't like being in images, my daughter does so we – I pay her.
Carey Ballard: No wonder she wants to be in there. [Laughter] That's fantastic. Don't tell my children that for the record, please.
Clate Mask: That's great. So find the medium that makes sense to you, that you – that works for you where it becomes very natural for you to express your interest, your passions, the things you discuss, and that makes sense to me. It's interesting because we've talked about doing podcasts for a long time. We've talked about doing blogs for
a long time, and I just – I wasn't doing that until the beginning of this year. Then I found that when I just started having the conversation in blog format it was totally easy. It just flowed very naturally, and podcasts for me has been even more just totally fun. I love it. I feel energized when we do our podcasts, I get done and I'm like I can't wait for people who've asked me questions over the years to be able to just listen to this instead of sitting down one by one and talking with entrepreneurs. I just can talk to people in a big group, and I get the fun of being able to talk with successful entrepreneurs like you, and then just share that with people, and sprinkle in a few things that I really care about that I think are a lot of fun. So I think you're…
Carey Ballard: Full disclosure. You needed a little push from your group. Admit it. I can speak to that.
Clate Mask: [Laughter] I totally did. I did, and it was actually – I had a I don't know feeling to do that, and then I started realizing this is totally fun. I have a blast with it. So I think your point is very good for our listeners to find a medium that makes sense for them, and just is naturally for them.
By the way, for our listeners as Carey said it does actually maybe take a little bit of a push, but once you start doing it becomes very natural.
Carey Ballard: That was – I think the lesson in that too is you had a really core group that you were accountable to, and you did not want to not do it, because you had told them you were going to do it. I think that's a really important tip for entrepreneurs is to actually have a group that's going to hold your feet to the fire to say you promised you were going to do this. You're going to fulfill that, and I think that sometimes that'll make those uncomfortable moments worthwhile.
Clate Mask: Yep. Totally.
Cate Stillman: Carey I want to emphasize this of having a scheduled. So I have a – I have to take a certain number of photos a week of my lifestyle, because I'm a lifestyle based brand. I have to produce at two podcast a week, and I have to write a blog post a week. It's – and I have people holding me – I record on that weekly, it's very, very important for anyone trying to build a tribe to have a content generation schedule.
Clate Mask: Yeah.
Carey Ballard: From a content perspective I can't echo that enough. You have to be – it's both about quantity and quality, and you've got to repeat it.
Clate Mask: Yeah. It applies broadly to entrepreneurship. If you don't have someone that you're accountable too, particularly if you're a solopreneur, and most small businesses are solopreneurs. So for all the solopreneurs listening out there one of the great things you can do for yourself, a great gift you can give yourself is get an accountability coach. Somebody that you work with, maybe it's another solopreneur and you talk once a week, and you make commitments to each other about the things you're going to do.
It's amazing how we can get distracted and off course of our goals when we don't have an accountability coach. I love, Cate that you shared that, you have certain things that you have to do, and you share – and you are accountable to somebody else, and you I imagine are holding them accountable as well. That's a really powerful tip particularly – for all entrepreneurs, but particularly for solopreneurs. It's a key thing.
Cate Stillman: Absolutely.
Clate Mask: Alright; so you've got – you talk – you call your business – you say you have a lifestyle brand. You've done – you've taken that I'd say even a step further where you've really designed your business and
your life together, and so it manifests itself as a lifestyle brand. But it's really about what you're trying to accomplish. I know you live in a couple of different places over the course of the year, but that's part of the design. So tell us a little bit about what you're designed and why you've designed it that way.
Cate Stillman: Sure. So I realized pretty early in the game I like to have a very specific conversation both in social media, but really in the depth of my – how I make money, and the delivery of courses is how this whole brand is based on me teaching. Then also now I have over 100 coaches teaching. So when – so that whole deal was built to go online, and the reason it was is because I could not – I like to live in gorgeous places where there's not so many people.
So I could not have the conversation I wanted to have locally.
There just wasn't the population base, and I found through touring around the country, teaching in different Yoga studios that other people are just as interested in this conversation. The first course I took online was in 2007, it was called the Living Ayurveda Course, it was $1000, I told 20 seats and instantly added a third income to my business.
Clate Mask: That's great.
Cate Stillman: So in that process I realized I'm like if I can make – I don't really know much about online marketing. I sent out four emails, I actually still remember the campaign. It was on how to have a body, and I show them how to diagnose their tongue, how to diagnose their poop, how to diagnose their skin. It was these four emails generated interest, and I think it was a click to sign up at $1000 in 2007, which is unbelievable. It was the enrollment conversation. So the people already knew what interested me. So, anyway, I did the same thing the next, the next year I was still running courses in Idaho. I had a very popular course I've done since 2002 called the Yoga Detox. Eventually that went online a couple of years later; so that was maybe 2009-2010 that first went online.
I kept tilting the scale towards making money, and non-locally, and then I set a goal to phase out all non – where I didn't have to be in a place or time to make money. Not time, but just in a place to make money. I could be online.
Clate Mask: Okay. Let me interrupt you there. So you were phasing out the local work, and you set a goal to no longer do any local work.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. I had a two year goal.
Clate Mask: Okay. That was – I imagine that was because you had a certain lifestyle you were trying to get to based on living in places where not a lot of other people lived. They were beautiful places, is that right?
Cate Stillman: It was partly that, it was partly because I noticed that was the kind of work – that was where the deepest conversations and the deepest transformations were from the online work. So I was simply enjoying that level of work more than showing up and teaching a public Yoga class or someone. I owned a studio, a local studio, the building and the business in town here and in Little Driggs, Idaho, and I just found – no offense to the people coming to class.
There are some amazing students there, but just the structure, the setup of how Yoga is taught, et cetera, it just wasn't giving me the bang, my bang, my little inner inspiration desire bang for my time buck. So that's what it was largely focused on. Then the other thing is I'm a natural innovator, that's one of my core strengths, futurist innovator. So my brain goes very fast and far into the future, and there's a lot of other things that I wanted to create. There are a lot of other conversations I wanted to have as courses that I couldn't – time's limited.
So I just quickly realized that something was going to have to give, and it was the local stuff. So then I said that – so then the other thing is Driggs, Idaho is an amazing place to ski and snowboard, which is why I moved here. But with global warming there's less snow, and so me and my husband decided if we were going to get really good at surfing we better live on the ocean, not just go to the ocean for a month here and there. But we better live at surf break, and so then that was the next part of that key is how can I be by a local if I have to serve a local _____.
Clate Mask: Okay. So you – so for our listeners to get their brains wrapped around all the pieces you just shared, you basically took your expertise and gradually moved that from being taught in person to being taught virtually and through 100 coaches or 100 instructors. You became the creator of the expertise, but you disconnected from all of their required – all the time requirements, all the location requirements. You made it time agnostic, location agnostic, you could be where you wanted to be so that it could serve your lifestyle interest whether that was skiing or surfing, and yet you continually innovated so that your people were – your 100 coaches or instructors are taking your expertise out to their audiences. Your role became to sit back as the creator and just keep funneling the information, and the expertise out to those 100 teachers.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. That's actually half the business is that, and then the other half is still me coaching the other curriculums that they don't coach. So, exactly, but that's exactly right, and it's all – this is actually worth bringing up as well, especially because there's a lot of online courses out there is we always say it's not just a course it's a community. So we don't just – we don't really do much in the info product world. What we really do is train people. So we have a – one of our intense focuses is how do you do that, how do you take people all over the world, in all these different time zones, and bring them together and actually build a community that's accountable to each other to actually hit the end results in a certain period of time. So you more or less go under contract as a group to get some stuff done in a certain period of time, and that's what been so fun to see that what can happen in this virtual space where we're not just downloading the same webinars to watch.
But we're actually meeting up on the phone or on video chats or forum groups and all that. Then we do a few live retreats where they come to Mexico or they come to Idaho and we chill.
Carey Ballard: Not bad places to be. So real quick, from an outside perspective this sounds like a Cinderella story, it sounds amazing. In the sense, not that it's exactly a Cinderella story, but it sounds almost too easy. Tell me about a time where it didn't feel too easy. When was a moment where you're like this is harder than it looks?
Cate Stillman: I think it's a two _____. It's always amazing, and it's always hard. There is a – I have a lot of spiritual training, and there's a precept that if you're not uncomfortable you're probably not evolving, and so in Yoga this shows ups as a practice we call Tapas, and it's the – it's a burning desire to evolve. That word burning it – Tapas actually is related to a word that means fire, it's directly rooted in the word of fire. Fire's uncomfortable, anyone who's ever been a little kid and sticking their hand in the campfire knows that's a very, very uncomfortable feeling.
But because I've been in Yoga since '96, '97 at this point, 20 years down the line I'm pretty attuned to being uncomfortable more or less all the time. So right now I'm in flight mode, because I'm in the elite momentum group with Infusionsoft, and it's the most uncomfortable process. I work continually doing things we've never done before, and having to learn how to do things we've never done before. But to me it's a course, and that's – it's uncomfortable, but it's familiar. So if you want a specific – bus something more specific Carey is that…
Carey Ballard: No, I think it's great, and I think your best quotable so far is fire is uncomfortable. I think we can all agree to that; so it's perfect.
Clate Mast: Yeah, and entrepreneurship is uncomfortable. It just…
Cate Stillman: It is.
Clate Mask: It is, and we love the – with the thrills and the triumphs of it, but – and we talk about that a lot, but there's also the challenges and the struggles. There's seasons where it feels more struggle and less triumph, and there's seasons where it's more triumph and less struggle.
But you're right, entrepreneurs do have to become accustom to that discomfort, because we're going out into a – as a business owner you're doing things that most people wouldn't do. Most people don't want to do that, they're too uncomfortable. So I think just coming to grips with that discomfort I think is actually a really good point for people to understand. That doesn't mean that it's always is just bleak and dark, and you're struggling like crazy. We all understand that there are those moments in the early stages of most businesses, but we get through that, and then it's just learning. It's learning and growing and we don't usually learn and grow without a little discomfort along the way.
Carey Ballard: So, Cate tell me what is your – what do you think the one characteristic that you hold in your being that has made you successful up to this point? What is the most important characteristic that you have?
Cate Stillman: It's probably innovative, to be an innovator.
In the world of Ayurveda, we're talking about a tradition that's at least 5000 years old, some document it back to 7000 years old. So there's tradition, basically generation after generation after generation for 5000 to 7000 years of these teachings. There's a lot of tax that are quoted and recorded, it's very similar to the Bible in many ways, because it's a spiritual path, but it's also a medicine path. So when I came in I'm like there's ways that I saw a lot of imprinting of Indian culture on something that was just a human wisdom tradition.
Not an Indian wisdom tradition, but a human wisdom tradition, and so I immediately started separating out the human wisdom from the Indian cultural context. In that – my desire to pull that out for the rest of the world, and particularly the Western Yogi person who wasn't going to cook with Indian spices and chant Indian mantras and become an Indian just because they wanted to understand this earth based wisdom, and consciousness based – earth based, consciousness wisdom practices.
I was willing to innovate, and in that I was willing in many to say – I caught a lot of flak along the way every time I'd do something a little different. Now I just expect it, and so it's fine.
Clate Mask: As an innovator you caught flak, what? I don't know what that's like. [Laughter]
Cate Stillman: I've been listening to a lot of rap lately. I've been listening to Eminem, and what I love about rappers is they're very egulac, and they're really willing to say it exactly as they want. They're willing to brag, and they know they're going to take flak, and I'm – I love that. So I would say they're innovative.
Clate Mask: [Laughter] That's great. Thanks for that. We love asking the successful entrepreneurs what they – what they're trait – the trait is that's most helped them. I – whether people will say that's it, innovative, it certainly is a common theme, and it's hard to be an entrepreneur without it. But I – you take it to a whole new level
when you've got a 5000-year-old practice and discipline that you are innovating and tweaking to create a business out of today, which is pretty awesome. Very cool.
Carey Ballard: Great work. Alright, thank you for joining us today unless – do you want to ask real quick your favorite question?
Clae Mask: Yeah, if you have a question for us we're happy to address something you have on your – anything you have on your mind.
Cate Stillman: Yeah. I do have a question for you, Clate, because I know that you're – you actually came up in conversation today with always having a coach. So I'm wondering what one skill that your coach has you working on right now?
Clate Mask: Let's see. You know I – I'm embarrassed to admit this, because it seems like I'm always working on this, but it is being present. I find that the allure and the challenge of business whatever it is that we're working on is so intoxicating at times that it pulls me away, it pulls my mind away from being just present in the moment with whoever I'm with.
We started working on this six years ago, and I feel like I just – I feel like I'm just scratching the surface on learning how to truly be present the way I want to be. So that's a hot one on my mind right now. It's probably even more hot on my wife's mind right now, because she wants me to be more present. [Laughter] I'm getting better, I'm happy to say that I'm getting better. I'm happy to say that I'm doing that for my wife, for my kids, for whoever it is that I'm in conversation with in that moment. But I just – I love and just believe in the power of the human connection when we're together, and yet it's very easy for my mind to wander and move to different things. My mind moves – I think my mind moves crazy fast, and I don't mean that in necessarily in a good way. It just moves really, really fast, and that's been a hard thing to notice and to pay attention to, and to slow it down and just be with whoever I'm with. So I – that's something that I'm working with a lot of my –working on a lot with my coach right now, being present.
Cate Stillman: Awesome.
Clate Mask: Yeah, thanks for asking it. I hope that's not of zero interest to our listeners, but,,,
Carey Ballard: I don't think it can be. I think everybody struggles with that.
Clate Mask: I imagine that most entrepreneurs do have a challenge with being present when we need to, and most of us unfortunately probably don't even realize that we're not being present, and that's something that I started to become attune to about six or seven years ago, and getting better at it. So thanks for asking, Cate.
Cate Stillman: Awesome, I love it.
Carey Ballard: Alright. Thanks for joining us today Cate, it was great to talk to you.
Cate Stillman: I know. I want to ask Carey about 50 questions about content marketing that I will…
Carey Ballard: You can give me a call.
Clate Mask: Thanks so much. This has been awesome to talk with Cate Stillman. This has been another addition of the Small Business Success Podcast.
Carey Ballard: Alright, and for the listeners out there don't forget we will have all the links and the books we mentioned in the show notes at smallbusinessuccess.com.
Clate Mask: Don't forget to rate us, write a review, and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.
If you're looking for more ways to grow your business check out our knowledge center at learn.infusionsoft.com.